Curse

Seamus Finn · Apr 21, 2007, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Some build suggestions:

Drop your first sin. Get something more sturdy like a crip slash war. He gives pressure, enough spike in the build and splittablility as well as snares. Sins and "pressure" don't usually mix, particularly the type of sins you have here. They are spike sins. you apparently recognize this due to slotting shadow shroud and i guess barbs for spiking purposes but you are running hex pressure so you don't need such dedicated spike characters.

Drop your second sin and get a rending sweep/melandrus dervish. This will remove prots as opposed to preventing them for a few seconds, will pressure far better, and will give the spike you need to kill rapidly degenning chars.

First necro: drop spirit, humility, and barbs. Bring parasitic for covers and sub ele for a GoLE. Take one more nice(aka GAY!) hex like maybe insidious parasite? You necro had no energy management. GoLE is nice on his bar. the other stuff can either be elsewhere and more effective or has somewhat been addressed.

Second Necro: Drop him for a Burning Arrow Ranger or a Broadhead guy. You are running hexes. Congratulations you won the stand, now you need to kill the splits. This necro hear is very redundant. The ranger gives pressure through conditions and is a great split char. Even in the shocking instance where you CAN'T win the stand by button mashing hexes.

Mes: Rather good. Lose soothing for the spirit you dropped on the necro. Energy management is helped and you just don't need to prevent the wars from getting adren because they can't hit anything anyways. Spirit shackles is annoying enough but I might take a leach sig or power return. You have migraine on your bar. Take advatange of this with interrupts and rape those monks with easy interrupts anyone can hit via migraine!

First Monk: Generally fine.

Second Monk: ACK! No rof. You aren't running three monks and this isnt a healer's boon. RoF owns. Fit it in the bar. Either rejuv or words(which i would drop for heal other anyhow) for rof. You also might consider just a draw vs. the condi removal here. RC should handle conditions so just draw his condis and maybe clean wars. Might want to fit an aegis on here if you are married to it on monk 1.

Runner: Too much party support. Again, you are running a lame hex build. Expect to win the stand. Now you need to kill splits. Sub Rt with weapon of warding and a heal. Lose that heal party/extinguish. I like armor of mist on water eles now. Ice spikes fit in there maybe?

Ok. I made way too many typing errors to bother fixing but I am quite certain every change I suggested improved your build by a lot and gave reasoning. Now, you could have just watched obs mode and eF's hex build, and then make the proper changes yourself, but I have been very nice and done them for you. I also pointed out why in case working that out yourself was problematic. Have fun.

P.S. Is this too radical, somehow disappointing? Remember you asked for critiques and fixes. Thus the changes were made to make the build more competitive. If you wanted to know something like, "Is this a crazy, fun and creative build that will still work?" ask that instead (the answer is no, by the way. Hexes are not fun/creative or original. It might still beat people but as I pointed out is no where near optimized for competitive play). People seem to worry about crushing creativity in builds. To be honest, if someone produces a build like this, their creativity should be put in check as he/she does not yet understand how to construct viable builds. As everyone said, go to obs mod. Really understand and play a variety of builds. Learn the game before you try to be an innovator. You will just fail and get discouraged.

...My guild is so going to get rolled if we ever fight OP's original build due to my posting here.

LifesRestorer · Apr 21, 2007, 10:59 PM // 22:59

you can be creative with hexes. hell, even the reapers mark/migraine mes was a creative midline until it was copied into the next chapter of GW.

i think it is too radical. i think the idea of this build was an assassin spike, where one would port in for a snare and the other would not allow prot on the target and the necro would stick on barbs for more damage. yeah i think the depravity necro could be changed but really changing the front 3 changes the whole idea of the build.

MentalMidgit · Apr 22, 2007, 03:58 AM // 03:58

http://gwshack.us/7a3ee <---updated build with some of liferestorers suggestions.

Yea i could change about 5 a the chars in my build and run a build pasted all over obs and win alot, but really why would i want to? Just so i can show off my rank to people and have no fun doing it. I built this build around what members in my guild like playing and are good at. Yes i could run a cripslash and a melandrus derv but if i dont have anyone to play it what is the point? Yes we could learn how to play it but obviously we are better at other professions because we have more fun playing them.

Just something to think about.

Seamus Finn · Apr 22, 2007, 06:23 AM // 06:23

No offense, but if your guild can't play front liners and can only play porting Blades sins, you should definately use the mods I made. Your players would benefit a great deal by learning to play more than a blades sin...

I am confused though, you asked, does this seem like a fun build to play? I thought you asked how to make the build effective.

To the other poster. Reaper's/Migraine combo was never creative because the combination was so obvious. Take the two strongest elite hexes in two given classes and build characters around them.... yeah tough to pull that together. If teh whole idea of teh build was a shadow shroud spike, well, how can I say this... it is gone about all wrong basically. Preventing prots means you want high damage packet characters to capitalize on teh absence of PS and SB on a target. Other than covering shadow shroud(which the same cahracter coudl do easy in an organized build and wouldnt have to often because veils are the most common removal), why would the OP want a bunch of other hexers. The two ideas really just make no sense together.

LifesRestorer · Apr 22, 2007, 11:59 AM // 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus Finn

No offense, but if your guild can't play front liners and can only play porting Blades sins, you should definately use the mods I made. Your players would benefit a great deal by learning to play more than a blades sin...

To the other poster. Reaper's/Migraine combo was never creative because the combination was so obvious. Take the two strongest elite hexes in two given classes and build characters around them.... yeah tough to pull that together.

i really agree with the first part. blades sins don't really require much skill so it will flatten out the learning curve a little. i think it is a nice starting point if you are just comming into gvg though so see how it works. if you start to improve and have the condifence that you are able to change to something else, do it. on the whole, assassins are very fragile. all it takes is 1 block/miss and the whole combo is ruined for another 20 seconds.

the only thing i have to say about the reapers migraine combo is that it was only obvious when EW and eF started owning with it all over observer

oh and i forgot one major thing about the build in discussion! it has no BIG hex removal! i'm not really sure how you can fit it in without dropping the aegis chain and sticking in a purge sig... then you can change the RC to mo/a and run two hybrids... the reapers should be able to cover the monks asses enough.
although purge sig is very tricky to use, it's essential to help deal with hex pressure, especially when you are running assassins.

Signet Of Hell · Apr 22, 2007, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Do the right thing: Run it for yourself, see how it works, get your whole team to criticize the build, mod it, run it again. Repeat when necessary*.

*Always necessary.

Zuranthium · Apr 22, 2007, 08:05 PM // 20:05

You have Aegis on your runner at an attribute of 0. And no cover hexes (Para Bond/Images of Remorse).

~Z

STINGER · Apr 23, 2007, 03:29 PM // 15:29

It is always better for new guilds to "make" thier own builds. It is also very good to keep in mind what is going on in the Meta/Obs and look for things that can help improve thier own builds.

Build copiers end up "also rans" in the end........its the true builders that step up and become something!

Stick to your guns...make your builds and lear the game..

I would suggest not sticking to the Assasins for too long.....work in some other builds, make minor adjustments in this build to make other builds that can do other things a bit stronger than this one.

I questions some of the hex options, but at the same time I understand them a bit.....run it and discuss it and improve it!

Blame the Monks · Apr 23, 2007, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by STINGER

Build copiers end up "also rans" in the end........its the true builders that step up and become something!

Completely false.

The people who win in the long run are those who focus on player skill, not build. No one remembers the inventors of IWAY. They only remember the WMs, the iQs, the EviL's, who win by skill, strategy, and teamwork. In the long run, there is no such thing as a build advantage. Its too easy for people to copy it and outplay you. Ask the spearmen. Or for the meta to change and your team collapse. Ask your favorite top 20 gimmick guild. They don't get respect, they don't win long term, they don't get better at the game, and 95% of them fail at actual innovation.

Its ultimately your choice, but don't pretend you aren't wandering down the winning path. I know people who prefer build wars to skill based games, but build wars is not the path to victory or respect.

DIH49 · Apr 23, 2007, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blame the Monks

The people who win in the long run are those who focus on player skill, not build. No one remembers the inventors of IWAY.

I'm pretty sure people remember izzy. Other than that you're completely right though.

Phelann · Apr 23, 2007, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by STINGER

It is always better for new guilds to "make" thier own builds. It is also very good to keep in mind what is going on in the Meta/Obs and look for things that can help improve thier own builds.

Build copiers end up "also rans" in the end........its the true builders that step up and become something!

Stick to your guns...make your builds and lear the game..

WARNING
WARNING
IGNORE THIS POSTER
HE HAS NOT EVER BEEN IN A TOP GUILD AND HAS NO CLUE WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT

moriz · Apr 23, 2007, 11:17 PM // 23:17

when attempting to make your own builds, always ask this question: "does this build do it's job better than an existing build on obs mode?" if yes, then run it. if no, then go back to the drawing board.

follow that rule religiously.

Signet Of Hell · Apr 24, 2007, 02:26 AM // 02:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIH49

I'm pretty sure people remember izzy. Other than that you're completely right though.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think izzy was more famous because of the actual people that played for them, rather then how they played or the level of skill, even though they were at the top for a while.

MentalMidgit · Apr 24, 2007, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Well we lost our core sin to testing =(. Now i am having trouble finding another sin who can get the spike down like we had it so i changed the build around.

http://gwshack.us/eabd9

Thomas.knbk · Apr 24, 2007, 05:39 AM // 05:39

wait....
someone's having trouble to activate a stance, cast a hex, press 1234, masturbate for 16 seconds, and do it again?

Patrograd · Apr 24, 2007, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blame the Monks

Completely false.

The people who win in the long run are those who focus on player skill, not build.
.

QFT

I have played in a number of top 100 teams, all of whom relied on one gimmick or other to reach that rank, and as soon as either the gimmick was nerfed or they tried to play balanced they were completely unable to cope until the next gimmick came along or they switched back.

2 months ago we set up a new guild and decided to do it the "right" way, playing (for the most part) balanced builds focussing on shutdown and teamwork. We exclusively took our builds from obs mode, and just worked hard at improving as players. We spent a whole month off the ladder, or hovering in the bottom part of it, winning one, losing one, but learning, learning all the time (this is a team remember made up of mostly players with top 100 "gimmick" experience), and then we suddenly started to win alot more games, climbed to rank 400 over a 2 week period. Currently we are in a phase of winning one losing one at that rank, but we know now that as long as we stick to our guns and learn from every game then the wins will come again, as indeed they seem to be after a really nice series of wins last night.

It isnt easy, because no-one likes to lose, but we know that as long as we keep playing builds that make us "play" properly then we will sooner or later (and there really is no rush) be able to slowly climb the ladder - and this is the important bit - safe in the knowledge that we will be able to withstand whatever the nerf bat does to us and still hold our rank, while all those who have relied on cheap tricks to get their rank fall by the wayside.

Someone said to me a while ago that there are two kinds of people qualified to make their own balanced GvG builds - top players and scrubs who think they're top players. If you are making your own build then I think you need to ask which of these you are.

Phelann · Apr 24, 2007, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrograd

Someone said to me a while ago that there are two kinds of people qualified to make their own balanced GvG builds - top players and scrubs who think they're top players. If you are making your own build then I think you need to ask which of these you are.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

MentalMidgit · Apr 24, 2007, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

wait....
someone's having trouble to activate a stance, cast a hex, press 1234, masturbate for 16 seconds, and do it again?

-_- Its not that simple....

We werent running two shadow prisons so the sequence would go lke this.

Have it so the shadow prison teles first then ending the recall getting the target and then spikeing and trying to avoid bodyblocks.

DIH49 · Apr 25, 2007, 03:45 AM // 03:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Signet Of Hell

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think izzy was more famous because of the actual people that played for them, rather then how they played or the level of skill, even though they were at the top for a while.

Izzy as in Isaiah Cartwright, the skill balance fellow, not the guild making fun of him run by Black Mischief. IWAY is his fault.

************************************************** ********

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrograd

Someone said to me a while ago that there are two kinds of people qualified to make their own balanced GvG builds - top players and scrubs who think they're top players. If you are making your own build then I think you need to ask which of these you are.

This is correct. I don't know why this thread is so long. Seriously people, think. Top players didn't become top players by not knowing how skills work. They obviously have a better idea how skills synergize in real games than someone who is not a top player. So, obviously you should be copying them until you understand exactly what they did and why. Once you can do that, then you'll be a top player and you should be able to make your own builds. People suggesting you make your own builds down at rank 1k are either spiteful or ignorant. If you knew enough to do it well, you wouldn't be asking for advice in the first place.

deadmonkey4u · Apr 26, 2007, 05:00 AM // 05:00

Lets get back on track here. Haven't read all the posts (due to it loading really slowly), but heres my 2 cents.

Humility on the Reaper's is really ineffective. I would replace that for sure.

With Mantra of Inscription on the Migraine I would suggest running Leech Signet instead of power drain (With the faster Recharge with inscriptions its superior to p-drain).

Take veil instead of deny on the infuser. Same energy cast time and recharge but veil is far more versatile. No other divine skills so its the same hex removal.

Not a big fan of single aegis.

I would take out extinguish for something like blurred.